Are there any deeper benefits to Windows Vista over Windows XP? Any?
I'm not talking eye-candy, a new Start menu .. or the rearrangement of security policies. But for programmers and developers - they still will be using C++ Win32/WinAPI and or C# and.NET right? So it's six of one, half dozen of the other expect that driver programmers will have to go to the effort to get their code signed with Vista?
Deeper benefits
To the contrary, Vista is a whole new ballgame from a development standpoint. You have WinFX, XAML, all kinds of stuff that didn't exist before. Check out the Vista page at MSDN ( http://msdn.microsoft.com/windowsvista/ ).
And from a user's perspective it's a whole new ballgame because the whole notion of getting at stuff by "location" is really going out the door. "Where" a thing is stored is largely irrelevant in Vista (as it should be). It's a radical departure from the old way of doing things, not just a pretty face at all.
"Workshop" wrote in message
Are there any deeper benefits to Windows Vista over Windows XP? Any?
I'm not talking eye-candy, a new Start menu .. or the rearrangement of security policies. But for programmers and developers - they still will be using C++ Win32/WinAPI and or C# and.NET right? So it's six of one, half dozen of the other expect that driver programmers will have to go to the effort to get their code signed with Vista?
Thanks for bring clarity to my world, Puppy.
Puppy Breath wrote:
To the contrary, Vista is a whole new ballgame from a development standpoint. You have WinFX, XAML, all kinds of stuff that didn't exist before. Check out the Vista page at MSDN ( http://msdn.microsoft.com/windowsvista/ ).
And from a user's perspective it's a whole new ballgame because the whole notion of getting at stuff by "location" is really going out the door. "Where" a thing is stored is largely irrelevant in Vista (as it should be). It's a radical departure from the old way of doing things, not just a pretty face at all.
You have WinFX etc, but this is going to work under XP / 2003, so no win there.
but, you have II7, do you need to target II7 eg longhorn server.
If you develop smartclient apps, why not give them some eye candy, you can WPF in XP but you cannot use things like GLASS.
I am a developer, I use vista as my main dev box, or at least I did until the RAID controller went pop, its being repaired now.
"Workshop" wrote in message
Are there any deeper benefits to Windows Vista over Windows XP? Any?
I'm not talking eye-candy, a new Start menu .. or the rearrangement of security policies. But for programmers and developers - they still will be using C++ Win32/WinAPI and or C# and.NET right? So it's six of one, half dozen of the other expect that driver programmers will have to go to the effort to get their code signed with Vista?
It will be more modern, meaning:
better support for new hardware more expandability better security
sure you will be able to still do things with XP like you still can do things now with Win2k.
These are the normal things you would expect for a windows version of 2007. I was just hoping for some other surprises that were unexpected....
"Workshop" wrote in message
Are there any deeper benefits to Windows Vista over Windows XP? Any?
I'm not talking eye-candy, a new Start menu .. or the rearrangement of security policies. But for programmers and developers - they still will be using C++ Win32/WinAPI and or C# and.NET right? So it's six of one, half dozen of the other expect that driver programmers will have to go to the effort to get their code signed with Vista?
John Jay Smith wrote:
These are the normal things you would expect for a windows version of 2007. I was just hoping for some other surprises that were unexpected....
A fully loaded 1958 Buick Roadmaster had everything one needed in a personal automobile - power everything, auto trans, luxury, style and so on .. since then the makers have done not much more than tweak. Maybe GUI'd OSes are getting suchly.
http://northstargallery.com/cars/car107.htm http://www.carhistory.no/s50_1.gif http://www.accf-cad.com/images/av7.jpg
Your car is of stoneage technology compared to what this 1930 Pierce Arrow modified by Nicola Tesla, (the master of electricity and creator of out electric grid) was.
http://www.2012.com.au/Tesla_auto.html
Bottom line.. there are ways to do incredible things.. IF you stretch your mind.
"Workshop" wrote in message
John Jay Smith wrote:
These are the normal things you would expect for a windows version of 2007. I was just hoping for some other surprises that were unexpected....
A fully loaded 1958 Buick Roadmaster had everything one needed in a personal automobile - power everything, auto trans, luxury, style and so on .. since then the makers have done not much more than tweak. Maybe GUI'd OSes are getting suchly.
http://northstargallery.com/cars/car107.htm http://www.carhistory.no/s50_1.gif http://www.accf-cad.com/images/av7.jpg
John Jay Smith wrote:
Your car is of stoneage technology compared to what this 1930 Pierce Arrow modified by Nicola Tesla, (the master of electricity and creator of out electric grid) was.
http://www.2012.com.au/Tesla_auto.html
Bottom line.. there are ways to do incredible things.. IF you stretch your mind.
Ok you got me. We are still burning things for energy and it's time we stopped this cr*p "en masse". I drive an Echo - comparatively very fuel efficient for a gasoline automobile with four doors. But it still burns stuff to move. I'd 'a bought the Prius but they wanted 30 thousand for it.
The planet Venus once had oceans .. but it caught the green house effect .. now the surface temperature is 1400 degrees.
My point, though, was more on the features of the car. It pretty much had everything. Power windows, radio, automatic trans, power seats and on and on. If you bought one you got around very comfortably (and with wild style). You'd almost be hard pressed to find a car as comfortable today as was the 58 Roadmaster. So when someone buys a new Cadillac Escalade today, they really aren't getting anything much better on an essential level than the 58 Buick Roadmaster. And both burn a heck of a lot of gasoline.
In the same vein, what's the difference for anyone between Vista and Windows 2000 [assuming all patched etc.]? Well, not too much if you got them all set up nicely. Heck, if Windows 98 had isolated memory space so that it didn't crash many of us could still be using it today and getting along fine. Just about anything can run on top of it.
But your point is taken. Real change for the better is where it's at, and it takes innovative thinking and will to create it.
Check out the front page of today's newspaper. It has a picture of people driving to work captioned "What's wrong with this picture?" If you click on the link today (Apr 28 06) you will see it (tomorrow there will be a different picture):
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/subscribe/index.html
All those giant personal trucks being driven in the daily commute - with just the driver but no passengers. No wonder there's a gasoline problem!
I agree. I have 2 trends.. One of them is to test things that have all the possible bells and whistles, and the other is to figure out how to do stuff with minimal requirements. I am experimenting on both sides. You can do much with puppy Linux that will run on a 486 :-)
We are at the verge of great problems my friend... Wars for oil? A poisoned earth? Where are we headed.... ?
What features vista will have is so insignificant compared to these.
Did you notice that tesla page? He did not use rechargeable batteries... It is not like we normally think an electric car would be. If you didn't understand what exactly I am implying, read it again....
Imagine for a moment this vision: Floating cars that can instantly speed up to 5 times the speed of sound controlled by computers for their routes. Inertia problem, solved. Cost for energy, Zero.
Does this seem too science fiction to you?
"Workshop" wrote in message
John Jay Smith wrote: Your car is of stoneage technology compared to what this 1930 Pierce Arrow modified by Nicola Tesla, (the master of electricity and creator of out electric grid) was.
http://www.2012.com.au/Tesla_auto.html
Bottom line.. there are ways to do incredible things.. IF you stretch your mind.
Ok you got me. We are still burning things for energy and it's time we stopped this cr*p "en masse". I drive an Echo - comparatively very fuel efficient for a gasoline automobile with four doors. But it still burns stuff to move. I'd 'a bought the Prius but they wanted 30 thousand for it.
The planet Venus once had oceans .. but it caught the green house effect .. now the surface temperature is 1400 degrees.
My point, though, was more on the features of the car. It pretty much had everything. Power windows, radio, automatic trans, power seats and on and on. If you bought one you got around very comfortably (and with wild style). You'd almost be hard pressed to find a car as comfortable today as was the 58 Roadmaster. So when someone buys a new Cadillac Escalade today, they really aren't getting anything much better on an essential level than the 58 Buick Roadmaster. And both burn a heck of a lot of gasoline.
In the same vein, what's the difference for anyone between Vista and Windows 2000 [assuming all patched etc.]? Well, not too much if you got them all set up nicely. Heck, if Windows 98 had isolated memory space so that it didn't crash many of us could still be using it today and getting along fine. Just about anything can run on top of it.
But your point is taken. Real change for the better is where it's at, and it takes innovative thinking and will to create it.
Check out the front page of today's newspaper. It has a picture of people driving to work captioned "What's wrong with this picture?" If you click on the link today (Apr 28 06) you will see it (tomorrow there will be a different picture):
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/subscribe/index.html
All those giant personal trucks being driven in the daily commute - with just the driver but no passengers. No wonder there's a gasoline problem!
BTW, "Longhorn" Server will have IIS7, as will Windows Vista (Home Premium and above). It won't be backported to Windows XP or any of the Windows Server Systems 2003.
-- Zack Whittaker » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org » Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared that up!
--: Original message follows :-- "steve" wrote in message
You have WinFX etc, but this is going to work under XP / 2003, so no win there.
but, you have II7, do you need to target II7 eg longhorn server.
If you develop smartclient apps, why not give them some eye candy, you can WPF in XP but you cannot use things like GLASS.
I am a developer, I use vista as my main dev box, or at least I did until the RAID controller went pop, its being repaired now.
"Workshop" wrote in message Are there any deeper benefits to Windows Vista over Windows XP? Any?
I'm not talking eye-candy, a new Start menu .. or the rearrangement of security policies. But for programmers and developers - they still will be using C++ Win32/WinAPI and or C# and.NET right? So it's six of one, half dozen of the other expect that driver programmers will have to go to the effort to get their code signed with Vista?
These are the normal things you would expect for a windows version of 2007. I was just hoping for some other surprises that were unexpected....
Please...as a developer, I don't *want* any surprises in a new OS. I want the promised features to be delivered as documented, and by the same token, I don't want any surprise undocumented "feature".
Each version of Windows brings new development options. Sometimes they are used and sometimes not. Users generally don't care as long as an app does what they want.
The concept of location is not going away. Some may want use other approaches, but that concept will be with us for some time to come. I remember how, a few Windows versions ago, listening all the claims about how INI files were going to be eliminated. Guess what...
Anyone who cares about their data, will know where it is located. Backups still use this, and drives are way too large for backing up everything. This PC alone has 500GB of storage, before I consider the other dozen or so PCs.
What developers do have to do is to be sure their apps work on Vista. Code signing is more important here, as are a number of other areas that have changed.
Ed
"Puppy Breath" wrote in message
To the contrary, Vista is a whole new ballgame from a development standpoint. You have WinFX, XAML, all kinds of stuff that didn't exist before. Check out the Vista page at MSDN ( http://msdn.microsoft.com/windowsvista/ ).
And from a user's perspective it's a whole new ballgame because the whole notion of getting at stuff by "location" is really going out the door. "Where" a thing is stored is largely irrelevant in Vista (as it should be). It's a radical departure from the old way of doing things, not just a pretty face at all.
"Workshop" wrote in message Are there any deeper benefits to Windows Vista over Windows XP? Any?
I'm not talking eye-candy, a new Start menu .. or the rearrangement of security policies. But for programmers and developers - they still will be using C++ Win32/WinAPI and or C# and.NET right? So it's six of one, half dozen of the other expect that driver programmers will have to go to the effort to get their code signed with Vista?
Inline:
John Jay Smith wrote:
I agree. I have 2 trends.. One of them is to test things that have all the possible bells and whistles, and the other is to figure out how to do stuff with minimal requirements. I am experimenting on both sides. You can do much with puppy Linux that will run on a 486 :-)
Or running Windows 98 for that matter because on an older machine it has lower hardware requirements than say a Win2k or a Vista.
We are at the verge of great problems my friend... Wars for oil? A poisoned earth? Where are we headed.... ?
What features vista will have is so insignificant compared to these.
Scary thoughts, eh? I know what I want to do. Reduce my oil consumption. My dream is to have a self-sustaining place outside the city and a vehicle that either just sips gas or doesn't even use gas. I have to admit I like cars. But I don't see any reason for what is going on these days. It's almost a rape of the planet. It's not fair, it's not right. Like that picture in the Ottawa citizen - people driving their personal TRUCKS on their daily commute with no one else on board. It amounts to dirty piggism of the worst sort. Sure, one would have to admit, gasoline concerns aside, some of these DVD GPS electronic wonders that people drive are pretty cool. But there's a disconnect there.
Did you notice that tesla page? He did not use rechargeable batteries... It is not like we normally think an electric car would be. If you didn't understand what exactly I am implying, read it again....
Sounds interesting will read again.
Imagine for a moment this vision: Floating cars that can instantly speed up to 5 times the speed of sound controlled by computers for their routes. Inertia problem, solved. Cost for energy, Zero.
Does this seem too science fiction to you?
Well, with the testimony of the scientific miracles that have already come along in my time so far, no. I was somewhat aghast with the speed so many legislators destroyed any hope of the Segway and other two-wheel gyro vehicles by banning them from their towns. I wondered if the concern was so much for the pedestrian as for the automobile manufacturors. It certainly occured to me that money might have changed hands, as the move against it was so expeditious.
"Workshop" wrote in message John Jay Smith wrote: Your car is of stoneage technology compared to what this 1930 Pierce Arrow modified by Nicola Tesla, (the master of electricity and creator of out electric grid) was.
http://www.2012.com.au/Tesla_auto.html
Bottom line.. there are ways to do incredible things.. IF you stretch your mind.
chop
Anyway, while big personal trucks are wonderful things and oil buring Escalades and Roadmasters make great and interesting museum pieces - they pull on the heart, the chrome glints yada yada and get this, 3 DVD players! - in my opinion it really really is time for the human race to move on from burning huge amounts of oil.
http://www.epa.gov/emissweb/smcar-06.htm http://www.tlb.org/scooter.html
'Have a nice one.
Surprises to me, not to the developers. I was thinking more on terms of a surprise that sounds like this:
AT LAST MS ADDED THAT TO XP!
-- "What concerns me is not the way things are, but rather the way people think things are." - Epictetus 55-135
"Homer J. Simpson" wrote in message
These are the normal things you would expect for a windows version of 2007. I was just hoping for some other surprises that were unexpected....
Please...as a developer, I don't *want* any surprises in a new OS. I want the promised features to be delivered as documented, and by the same token, I don't want any surprise undocumented "feature".